southern exposure
In a discussion in comments, I was directed to Atheist Exposed, a blog by S. Setterbo, a woman in Texas who was "coming out" as an atheist to her coworkers and others in her life. Setterbo lives in a highly Christian environment and felt it was a Big Thing to reveal this part of herself. Her stated goal: "to give these Christians the knowledge, that they know an Atheist, and she's not a bad person."
Setterbo's fears were used as evidence of a lack of religious freedom in the US - and I find myself in the odd position of actually defending the US. Go figure.
Try as I might, I can't see this woman as a victim of religious intolerance. There's no freedom from discomfort at being a minority, no guarantee of personal acceptance by those around you, nor should there be.
I must clarify that Setterbo doesn't present herself as a persecuted victim at all. This is in response to others' comments about her, not her own words. I read elsewhere that she was afraid of losing her job, but I didn't see anything about that (although I might have missed it). In reality she lost neither her job nor her friends.
Setterbo is obviously intelligent, compassionate and kind. I can sympathize with her for feeling out of place. Many of her conservative Christian co-workers would feel dreadfully out of place in New York City. But they wouldn't be denied religious freedom, and neither is she.
I think Setterbo's central issue is the closet. Whenever we keep our true selves hidden, we feel discomfort. The longer we stay in a closet - of any kind - the harder it becomes to reveal our true self. Setterbo describes herself as a "30 year closet atheist". If you're in the closet for 30 years, it's going to be a big deal when you finally come out. The reality may be better than you imagined, which is what she found.
In many of her posts, I read Setterbo's desire for acceptance and understanding by her co-workers. This may also be the source of her discomfort. If we feel it's necessary for our co-workers to understand us, and we don't work in an environment of like-minded people, it's going to chafe. I know I was more comfortable and more "out" about my own life when I worked in a non-profit alternative school for teenagers, than when I was a secretary in a corporate law firm. As a secretary, I often felt alienated and out of place. I could decide, the benefits of working here are too good, I will put up with the alienation. Or I could feel, I need to work in a more nurturing environment, and look for other employment. Either way, I wasn't being denied my rights.
Separation of church and state is an important part of a free society, and the US is moving farther and farther away from it every day. The creeping theocracy is one of the reasons I'm leaving. But that's not the same as freedom of religion. Of course I realize that under an actual theocracy there would be no religious freedom, but as bad as it is, we're not there yet.
Thanks to Atheist Exposed for (unknowingly) allowing me to use her blog to make a point. Her blog is well written and illuminating, and worth a visit.
Setterbo's fears were used as evidence of a lack of religious freedom in the US - and I find myself in the odd position of actually defending the US. Go figure.
Try as I might, I can't see this woman as a victim of religious intolerance. There's no freedom from discomfort at being a minority, no guarantee of personal acceptance by those around you, nor should there be.
I must clarify that Setterbo doesn't present herself as a persecuted victim at all. This is in response to others' comments about her, not her own words. I read elsewhere that she was afraid of losing her job, but I didn't see anything about that (although I might have missed it). In reality she lost neither her job nor her friends.
Setterbo is obviously intelligent, compassionate and kind. I can sympathize with her for feeling out of place. Many of her conservative Christian co-workers would feel dreadfully out of place in New York City. But they wouldn't be denied religious freedom, and neither is she.
I think Setterbo's central issue is the closet. Whenever we keep our true selves hidden, we feel discomfort. The longer we stay in a closet - of any kind - the harder it becomes to reveal our true self. Setterbo describes herself as a "30 year closet atheist". If you're in the closet for 30 years, it's going to be a big deal when you finally come out. The reality may be better than you imagined, which is what she found.
In many of her posts, I read Setterbo's desire for acceptance and understanding by her co-workers. This may also be the source of her discomfort. If we feel it's necessary for our co-workers to understand us, and we don't work in an environment of like-minded people, it's going to chafe. I know I was more comfortable and more "out" about my own life when I worked in a non-profit alternative school for teenagers, than when I was a secretary in a corporate law firm. As a secretary, I often felt alienated and out of place. I could decide, the benefits of working here are too good, I will put up with the alienation. Or I could feel, I need to work in a more nurturing environment, and look for other employment. Either way, I wasn't being denied my rights.
Separation of church and state is an important part of a free society, and the US is moving farther and farther away from it every day. The creeping theocracy is one of the reasons I'm leaving. But that's not the same as freedom of religion. Of course I realize that under an actual theocracy there would be no religious freedom, but as bad as it is, we're not there yet.
Thanks to Atheist Exposed for (unknowingly) allowing me to use her blog to make a point. Her blog is well written and illuminating, and worth a visit.
But I think you missed my point in directing you to Atheist Exposed -- not that there is religious oppression in the US, but that religious freedom is not as free as people'd like to pretend.
ReplyDeleteYou make my point here:
"Setterbo (the Atheist Exposed) describes herself as a "30 year closet atheist". If you're in the closet for 30 years, it's going to be a big deal when you finally come out. The reality may be better than you imagined, which is what she found."
The very fact that she felt she had to be closeted to avoid harassment or discrimination means that she wasn't free in her religious (non-)beliefs. If you have to hide who you are, then you aren't free.
(Another recent example: an employee was recently fired from a Baptist University for being the wrong kind of Baptist -- he didn't accept salvation through faith in Jesus alone.)
It's certainly nowhere near as bad as, say, the proposed new Afghan constitution which declares that Islam is the religion of Afghanistan, and calls for the elimination of contrary traditions. But it's also not real freedom.
But I think you missed my point in directing you to Atheist Exposed
ReplyDeleteNo, I did not.
If you have to hide who you are, then you aren't free.
She did not have to hide who she was. She chose to hide it, and that is a huge difference.
She didn't feel free to be out about her beliefs - but that's her own feelings. Once she dealt with her feelings and came out, she was fine. That is not a religious freedom or tolerance issue - it's a personal comfort issue.
The Baptist University is free to do what they want, as long as they don't accept government funds. I'd hate for a religious institution to not have the option to hire based on religion. What if an anti-Semite wanted to work for a Yeshiva? Must the Yeshiva be obligated to hire him? I should hope not. A private institution should be free to hire whomever they want.
What can I tell you, I just disagree with you on this. When I went to her blog, I was surprised at how very mild and affirming her experience actually was.
Why did she feel she had to hide who she was, though? Because society in some parts of the US is extremely intollerant of atheists. It's great that she was wrong, but not-so-great that she had any reason to believe it would be a problem in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI'm not talking about government discrimination (my example for that was recent anti-Wiccan treatment by the US), but of general religious intolerance in the population (again, not everywhere).
Consider this from Bishop Harry Jackson's speech at "Justice Sunday II", a TV broadcast that was part of a prominent and well-supported movement to stack the US Supreme Court:
"We need to tell both parties, ‘It’s our way or the highway,’ [...] You and I can bring the ruling reign of the cross to America."
And this isn't just some small, intollerant congregation somewhere -- JSII had a distribution of about 80 million households.
Mainstream American society can be very intolerant of difference, that is true. But if you're using someone's personal fears to support an argument, then anyone's inner fears could be "evidence" of anything. The fact is, when she came out, nothing happened.
ReplyDelete"Justice Sunday" was an abomination and their calls about the Supreme Court speak to the need for greater separation of church and state. But again, I think you're talking apples and oranges - two different issues.
I simply don't see this as an issue of religious freedom. Sorry.
Why did Setterbo's fears exist? What created them? Why, in a religiously free society, would anyone actually be afraid of their religious beliefs becoming known?
ReplyDeleteWe cannot know what created Setterbo's fears. She could be afraid of standing out, of being different. She might be someone more accustomed to blending in with the crowd. You assume her fears were justified and created by external forces. That's an assumption. I see nothing in her blog to support that.
You're confusing society's penchant for conformity with a lack of freedom.
It's the same sort of thing that drives gays, bisexuals, transsexuals, &c into the closet.
But we all know tons of gays and lesbians who are out in small town America, in heavily Christian areas, in places where they stand out as different. But they choose to be out. Nothing drives people into the closet in American society.
Being different takes courage, sure - but where does it not? Is there a society of humans in which the Different One doesn't stand out and face some extra scrutiny or gossip?
It's not always easy to be different, but it doesn't mean you're discriminated against or harassed.
You give example after example of the Christian majority in the US. I don't dispute it, surely. But those examples don't add up to intolerance, discrimination or harassment.
I'm not saying discrimination and harassment don't exist - of course they do. But you're painting a picture of a climate that doesn't match reality.
I simply don't agree with you. OK???
One other point: while Setterbo's fears did not pan out in her particular case, they were not without foundation:
ReplyDeleteIn fact, there is nothing on Setterbo's blog (to my knowledge) that says she was afraid of losing her job.
She says she was trying to educate, to enlighten a few minds that atheism does not equal evil. Her fears were not about employment consequences.
I'm with you, L-girl. And I must say that you're very calm and eloquent in your self expression. Good work.
ReplyDeleteI think there's too much fuss made about people being free and not enough about people living up to the obligations of being free. Freedom isn't about being comfortable--making choices can be quite discomforting.
Why thank you, Utenzi. I must clarify that I am definitely not always calm in my arguments! I can be so here because James is a friend, a progressive person, and I know he and I are on the same side, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteWhen faced with serious opposition - people who oppose my very life and world view - I often lose all articulation and become a babbling idiot. But then, never as idiotic as they are. :)