she said let's discuss abortion. i told her to fuck off.
She said she'd pray for me. I said nothing.
She said let's discuss abortion. I told her to fuck off.
* * * *
Long ago, I blogged about receiving a holiday card with a proselytizing message underlined in red. Wmtc readers had a good discussion around it, with responses running the gamut.
The person who left that card for me recently resurfaced on my radar. But she won't be appearing again. I want to share our exchange, to get it off my chest, as well as to hear your reactions.
Former Co-worker and I worked together briefly, one day a week, several years ago. She was a nice person to work with, and we would sometimes chat. We haven't worked together in more than four years, and we do not keep in touch. She sends photos of her children to, apparently, everyone she has ever known. I never respond.
But I guess she keeps in touch with other former co-workers, because she heard I had resigned my position at Evil Corporate Law Firm, and contacted me.
I replied:
Then, of course, there's the old bugaboo that haunts many atheists: "I'll pray for you". Many people find this extremely offensive. To me, it depends on the context. If someone is praying for me because I'm not Christian and they are praying for me to see the light, I'm likely to tell them to go to hell. But if they mean it more in the sense of "I'll keep you in my thoughts," or "I hope you will be well", because (for some bizarre reason) they think these thoughts can help keep people healthy and safe, I'll nod and smile and make no comment.
In this case, I struggled a bit, because I was irritated, but I said nothing. Still hoping to end the conversation, I replied:
She wrote back.
I cannot talk to anti-choice people about abortion. I simply cannot. I cannot be rational, I cannot contain my anger, I cannot be respectful. It strikes too deeply into the core of my beliefs. Their position denies my personhood, denies all women's basic human rights. They are my enemy.
If she were moderately pro-choice, as most people seem to be - understanding the need for safe and legal abortion options, but also wishing to place some restrictions on abortion - I could easily exchange ideas. In those situations, I always listen and offer my own perspective in return. No problem.
I also know women who feel abortion is wrong for themselves under any circumstances, but agree there should be safe and legal abortion services. (One is a rape survivor who was prepared to carry the pregnancy if there was one. The other surrendered a baby to adoption.) I have great respect for both of those women.
But a person who prays in front of hospitals for "an end to abortion", who confuses fetuses with "people"... I cannot. If this is a flaw or a shortcoming, so be it. It's not something I'm trying to change about myself. Why should I play nice with them? What's the point?
Of course I could have said nothing, and ended the conversation myself. But her refusal to respect my request to drop the subject pissed me off. If that was her intention, she accomplished it, and I wasn't about to sit and fume without a reply.
Was the whole email conversation a set-up to bait me about M-312? If she wants to understand the pro-choice position on M-312, a simple Google search would have done the trick. There was no need to contact me.
Your thoughts?
------
* For non-Canadian readers, Motion 312 was a private member's bill (non-government sponsored attempt at legislation) calling for a Parliamentary committee to study when life begins.
FC-W, in case you're reading, life begins at the moment of conception. We all know that. Bacteria is a life form. Celery is a life form. A zygote is a life form. But none of these blobs of cells are human beings.
M-312 was defeated in a vote of 203-90. One-third of Canadian MPs, including one of the most powerful Ministers in the country, want to re-open the abortion debate.
She said let's discuss abortion. I told her to fuck off.
* * * *
Long ago, I blogged about receiving a holiday card with a proselytizing message underlined in red. Wmtc readers had a good discussion around it, with responses running the gamut.
The person who left that card for me recently resurfaced on my radar. But she won't be appearing again. I want to share our exchange, to get it off my chest, as well as to hear your reactions.
Former Co-worker and I worked together briefly, one day a week, several years ago. She was a nice person to work with, and we would sometimes chat. We haven't worked together in more than four years, and we do not keep in touch. She sends photos of her children to, apparently, everyone she has ever known. I never respond.
But I guess she keeps in touch with other former co-workers, because she heard I had resigned my position at Evil Corporate Law Firm, and contacted me.
Hey Laura,
I just emailed [former co-worker] at [ECLF] to say hi and she told me your good news! Congratulations on your Masters!!! And, also congratulations on quitting [ECLF], with no notice no less! LOL! Good for you! You go, girl! I remember your heartache there when I worked with you, glad you moved on and that you are pursuing new avenues. I believe you told me you were working towards being a librarian, if I am correct? Have you gotten a job in that field already?
How have you been? I really enjoyed working with you and hope all is well! Congratulations again on your Masters!!
I replied:
Thanks, [FC-W]! I'll be done with my degree in April 2013. It's been a long haul and I can't wait to be finished! Yes, it's a Library degree, technically called Library and Information Science (LIS). I am incredibly happy and relieved to be out of [ECLF]. I was absolutely miserable there for several years. I have a small part-time job with the Mississauga Library System, working in their incredible children's library. It's just an entry-level job, but I'm learning a lot, and it gives me access to internal job postings, so that after I have my degree, I can compete for good librarian jobs.I assumed that would be the end of the conversation. But she replied:
Things are good, busy and hectic, but chugging along. I hope you and the whole family are all well. Thanks so much thinking of me. All best!!
Laura
Hi Laura,It took me a while to figure out what "horrific story" I shared with her. Eventually I realized that, in context of something she disclosed to me, I told her I had been raped when I was 21. I didn't tell her any story, just that I was a rape survivor. I thought it was strange that she would bring this up, considering our complete lack of relationship.
Good for you for getting out of [ECLF]! What a nasty environment that was! At least now you will have time to clear your mind and focus on what really matters to you. I have not missed it there at all, that's for sure.
I will put you on my prayer list and ask the Lord to open doors for you to get a good job that you are hoping for! I know things must be tough in our economy. I occasionally take the time to read your blogs and I can tell that you and I are on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum on most issues, but that doesn't mean I don't respect you as a person and I really enjoyed working with you. I will always remember the horrific story you shared with me about what happened to you and it just broke my heart. I can never imagine such a nightmare. I hope and pray you will find complete healing in your life regarding this.
It has been a pleasure knowing you and I hope to bump into you again one day!!
Then, of course, there's the old bugaboo that haunts many atheists: "I'll pray for you". Many people find this extremely offensive. To me, it depends on the context. If someone is praying for me because I'm not Christian and they are praying for me to see the light, I'm likely to tell them to go to hell. But if they mean it more in the sense of "I'll keep you in my thoughts," or "I hope you will be well", because (for some bizarre reason) they think these thoughts can help keep people healthy and safe, I'll nod and smile and make no comment.
In this case, I struggled a bit, because I was irritated, but I said nothing. Still hoping to end the conversation, I replied:
Hi [FC-W],Now I was sure that would be the end of the conversation. But to my surprise, she wrote back, and expanded a bit on just how opposite-ends-of-the-spectrum we are.
That's very sweet of you to say. I had forgotten that I shared with you that I am a rape survivor. I can assure you am completely healed and whole again, and have been for a very long time. It's something that changed me, the way any trauma does, and I hope I can always say it's the worst thing that ever happened to me. But it's not something that still affects my life, except in a political way.
Thanks for your very kind words and good perspective. I think it's important that people who are, as you put it, on opposite sides of most issues, can still respect each other and have compassion for each other's lives. We all share the same world, we should know how to co-exist.
I also enjoyed working with you! I hope things are well with you and your family and I wish you all the best.
Laura
Hi Laura,Was the whole email conversation leading up to this? Is her praise for my writing bait for a trap? Or is she genuinely asking my opinion? I wrote my reply very carefully.
I am so glad to hear that you are completely healed and whole after such a traumatic experience! I also wanted to say what an amazing writer you ar I've read some of your blogs and the way you can carry out your points so articulately just honestly amazes me. The blogs I have read are so carefully thought out and you express things in ways that are clear, concise and honest. You are also very bold in being straight forward about where you stand on the most important topics of our times.
After reading some of your blogs, I can see that you are clearly pro-choice. I am 100% pro-life and during the summer got involved with Bound4Life and stood outside of the [name of hospital] every 2 weeks to pray for an end to abortion. We don't hold signs or protest, we simply line up and pray for one hour. One thing I wanted to ask you was your opinion on sex-selective abortions since that is on a serious increase in our society, as women are going in to abort their babies simply because they are female (and occasionally male). May I ask your thoughts on this as I would really like to know the pro-choice opinion (or perhaps you have already blogged about it!). There are great reasons why each person is either pro-choice or pro-life, and I for one, want to be understanding of everyone, no matter what side they are on. Thanks for any insight you can provide!
[FC-W]
Hi [FC-W],
Thanks for saying such nice things about my writing. It's always amazing and wonderful to hear.
I will be writing soon about sex-selected abortion. The short version is that there are no circumstances where I oppose a woman's right to choose whether or not to bear a pregnancy to term. It is not for me - or anyone else, and especially not the government - to tell any woman what to do with her own pregnancy, under any circumstances. If a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy because of the sex of the fetus, that's her business.
I am speaking for myself. I can't say that is "the pro-choice opinion". It is simply *my* opinion.
Since you raised this topic, I'll also share with you that I strongly object to the use of the expression "pro-life" to mean anti-abortion-rights. I do not believe people who oppose abortion are more pro-life than people who support abortion rights. We are certainly not pro-death. I use the expressions pro-choice and anti-choice. I believe that is more accurate.
As you read my blog, at least occasionally, you probably know that I don't debate this issue. I trust you will respect that and make this our last communication on the subject. Thanks for asking, and if you are interested in a more in-depth answer, stay tuned to wmtc.
Best,
Laura
She wrote back.
Hi Laura,Does she really believe that M-312* would have "made this issue very clear either way"? Can anyone be that naive - or that stupid? I asked her to make it her last communication on the topic, and she didn't respect that - which makes me think this was her intent all along. Recall that this is the person who left me a religious holiday card with instructions to worship underlined in red.
I am not anti-choice either, so I agree that terminology can really bother both sides! I love that women have rights and choices, I just think that if those rights and choices affect what happens to another human life, that's when we must stop and realize that one person's rights should never impede another person's right to live. It is too bad that Motion 312 was defeated since then we could have made this issue very clear either way... is an unborn fetus a human being or not?? And if a fetus is a human being, then do we simply not care that they are being killed all in the name of "Women's Rights"? That is why we call ourselves pro-life, because we believe in the value of life right from conception, not just after birth. Why did pro-choice people not want to find out if a fetus is a human being (Motion 312)??
Anyways, I will certainly respect your wishes regarding debate. I am not here to debate you, but do you really mind even discussing this topic? I don't know how else to clearly understand both sides unless I get answers from people who are pro-choice, which is helpful especially getting an opinion from someone I respect. However, if even discussion is out, then forgive me and I will simply have to just read your blogs for greater understanding! And please, no hard feelings!! As I said, I am certain there are great reasons why all of us hold to the positions we have.
I cannot talk to anti-choice people about abortion. I simply cannot. I cannot be rational, I cannot contain my anger, I cannot be respectful. It strikes too deeply into the core of my beliefs. Their position denies my personhood, denies all women's basic human rights. They are my enemy.
If she were moderately pro-choice, as most people seem to be - understanding the need for safe and legal abortion options, but also wishing to place some restrictions on abortion - I could easily exchange ideas. In those situations, I always listen and offer my own perspective in return. No problem.
I also know women who feel abortion is wrong for themselves under any circumstances, but agree there should be safe and legal abortion services. (One is a rape survivor who was prepared to carry the pregnancy if there was one. The other surrendered a baby to adoption.) I have great respect for both of those women.
But a person who prays in front of hospitals for "an end to abortion", who confuses fetuses with "people"... I cannot. If this is a flaw or a shortcoming, so be it. It's not something I'm trying to change about myself. Why should I play nice with them? What's the point?
Of course I could have said nothing, and ended the conversation myself. But her refusal to respect my request to drop the subject pissed me off. If that was her intention, she accomplished it, and I wasn't about to sit and fume without a reply.
[FC-W], you must have misunderstood me. I have no interest in discussing this topic with you or reading anything you have to say about abortion. There is no such thing as a "discussion" between you and I on this topic that is not actually a debate. There are no arguments you could possibly make that I haven't heard a million times before. There is nothing you could possibly say that could change my point of view, any more than I could change yours. I find your views incredibly offensive. I cannot even stand to read them. Please do not email me again about this or any other subject. Thank you.
Laura
Was the whole email conversation a set-up to bait me about M-312? If she wants to understand the pro-choice position on M-312, a simple Google search would have done the trick. There was no need to contact me.
Your thoughts?
------
* For non-Canadian readers, Motion 312 was a private member's bill (non-government sponsored attempt at legislation) calling for a Parliamentary committee to study when life begins.
FC-W, in case you're reading, life begins at the moment of conception. We all know that. Bacteria is a life form. Celery is a life form. A zygote is a life form. But none of these blobs of cells are human beings.
M-312 was defeated in a vote of 203-90. One-third of Canadian MPs, including one of the most powerful Ministers in the country, want to re-open the abortion debate.
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